Help needed: ID Sunbeam engine

[Dan Breault]

Please tell me if the # on a valve cover of an engine identifies it ?

Sunbeam LTD tag, Below “Engine” on tag is 6877-B19KC

Below that on tag reads : Model C4PZ-6001-CF

I’m wondering if its a 260, 289 and any other info the tag provides. The owner says he has the Tiger the engine came out of but I don’t yet know if the car has any of its original ID tags on it.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Sean Johnson]

The tag indicates a 260 MK1a engine, so a 260… That’s assuming that the engine “under” the valve cover is original to the valve cover! The engine number puts it in the Mar/Apr 1966 time frame.

The B19KC group of MK1a engines were painted Ford Corporate blue (Dark blue) instead of black.

[Bob and Jean Webb]

You might also want to post your question on the TE/AE Facebook page. It’s very active and there’s a lot of long time owners and club members that frequent the page on a regular basis. Maybe someone knows the history of the car that had the engine.

[Dan Breault]

Thanks Sean. I found out more about the car. Unfortunately it’s had its VIN reassigned. The original tags are gone and in place of the JAL tag is another with a 9 digit number. I suspect this hurts the value of the car a lot.

[Sean Johnson]

Dan,

I do not have the ledger page for this particular car, but IF the rear axle number and the gearbox number are available… I could find out what the JAL and Chassis number should be. There is a source for correct JAL repro’s.. The vin tag is a little more complicated… there are three different fonts for the characters as these were supplied to Jensen (who assembled the cars). originally the tags would have been missing the last one, or possibly 2 digits of the chassis number as well as the color code and the actual engine number. The group number (B19KC) would have been on the tag supplied by Rootes.

It would also be helpful to have the key numbers. The ignition and door key number was stamped onto a lever on the exterior door handle. The handle has to be removed to see it. the cubby box and trunk lock number are stamped onto the bracket that the trunk lock is riveted to.

I would want to see pics of the engine bay (top hats and trans bulkhead), the underside of the car (cruciform and LH outrigger), prop shaft tunnel and trunk floor (inside and from below) to confirm the car is really a Tiger before I pass along the particulars..

there are hundreds of differences between a real Tiger shell and an Alpine. Very few people know all of them. Usually cars that are presented w/o tags are either recovered thefts of a genuine car, or a converted Alpine.

If you can establish the car as being genuine, then the lack of tags is a lesser hit… Then you can establish the car as genuine and explain why the tags are absent.

[warren-g]

Wow is there a job opening for TIROST?
Probably not. The car may or may not be a re body. Just because Norm blessed cars that had the original drive train doesn’t mean it’s that car, but could be. There’s been TAC state ID cars and even ones with no JAL or VIN.
I made a comment about one car on the East Coast that had an obvious home brew JAL only.
This “race car” had no title either.

There’s been cars that lost tags due to body shop incompetent people, and every other reason. There’s a LR winner with a fake tag as well so it depends who you are and who worked on the car as well as your TU skills and scores. But bottom line is people get scared off by fake tags due to the stories and the TIROST , ” car could be crushed.” By the cops.

Lock barrels often go with doors that have been swapped. First look deep for original body color on em and save yourself the headache. I’ve seen one Tiger with a state ID in the same number as an original car.
There’s also a car that left Cali with a state ID that got a title wash and registration with their old number and a repo tag. This is a big deal for our cars as no secondary exists,

• This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by warren-g.

[warren-g]

And Warren just went down the rabbit hole ..
Look at the casting date under the starter.
There’s also build date behind the distributor on the deck of the block. That same build date is also under the oil pan gasket. But the big key is the revision number under the starter after the 6015…

• This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by warren-g. Reason: Terrible display on handheld devices

[Sean Johnson]

you can also just pull off a valve cover and look at the head. 289’s will have 289 cast right into the head… 1f any part of the block casting #’s start with “D” it’s a 302. the block date code is on the LH cylinder deck just behind the oil filter carrier bracket…

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