Help with Starter

[tigernewbie]

My starter seems to have crapped out. First it was just loud, then it seemed to struggle in turning the flywheel. Finally, it seems to spin without engaging. The car is a 1966 MK1A and the engine is a 289 from a MK2 coupled to the original MK2 HEH-CF wide ratio transmission via the original MK2 bell housing. It’s stock except for the mild cams in it. If I remember correctly, the starter may be the original from way back when, as I think I took it from the original 260, which is in storage with the original transmission, etc.

Anyway, I am planning to buy a new starter and want to be sure I get one that fits and will do the job. Does anyone have any knowledge on this topic they’d share with me, please? Is there a particular Summit Racing, Jegs, NAPA, or other starter you would recommend for my application? Part numbers would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Chuck & Ollie Ingram]

I would look at a gear reduction starter.I had an erratic starter in the Lister with the 351W .Sometimes it would act like a bad ground.cleaned and checked every connection.The starter was checked out at a shop whose owner I knew.It tested out good.He gave me a gear reduction starter.What a difference.No more problems.Turns faster and starts like almost on the first turn.
A good shop should be able to help you on this.No I don’t know the part number.I just know he told the girl to look up some numbers and she told him the starter to pull of the shelf.

[anonymous]

260 and 289 starters are different in length of the section that enghages the flywheel. I know because I ordered a 289 starter for my 260 and it did not fit.

Also, I remember there is a difference between starters for a manual and an automatic 289, maybe a 260 as well. I know this from the MKII I had in school and tried to replace the starter for the manual shift with an automatic one. Didn’t work again.

Fred Baum

[Mark Lafayette]

In addition to searching for a new starter I would definitley check the ground wires in the system.

[Joel & Karen Griffin]

You can get a gear driven starter from Jegs (there’s) we’ve used them both on a 302 and now on the 260 we have in the latest Tiger,the part number should be the same.

[tigernewbie]

I bought a stock, Ford starter from NAPA and installed it. Turned the key and was immediately pleased that something happened. I had imagined that I would not be able to do this. My happiness lasted about 1/4 second when I realized that there was something wrong. The starter just spun free. I removed the it — chipping my knuckles some more — and noticed that the offset was 3/8 instead of the correct 3/4. The offset is the distance between the mounting surface of the starter motor and the forward surface of the flywheel. Essentially, the new starter’s gear did not reach far enough into the bell housing to engage the flywheel gear. Lovely. Fortunately, even though their policy is that if you bolt a starter up, you keep it, NAPA accepted the return because they had sold me a starter with the wrong offset. I then ordered a Powermaster 9103. This looks like it will be great. Much smaller and lighter, and stronger with lower power draw. But this has a solenoid built in. They say a remote starter can be used, but will require a jumper or a wire move. I hope it will work with a jumper between the little battery terminal and the larger stud where the cable from the solenoid goes. I really don’t want to rewire the starter circuit. Has anyone installed one of these?

By the way, I measured both the 289 and the original 260 and their offsets (and everything else) was the same.

Thanks.

[Joel & Karen Griffin]

The powermaster while a great starter is a little but pricey,this is why I suggested Jeg’s it is a gear reduction with the intergal solonoid its also
adjustable for different positions headers and other things that get in the way,good example we’re using it upside down because of the headers we have,
you should be able to make a small jumper wire to acheive what you want. we wired to the starter directly and eleminated the solonoid completely.

[Wes Stote]

Have a look at this info.
Starter tech tips from Speedway Motors -Ford starter/flywheel tech tips.
Saved a lot of guess work.
Wes.

[tigernewbie]

I exchanged my 9103 for a Powermaster model 9603, which allows me to hook it up just like the original with no rewiring required. S ince the 9603 is not a permanent magnet type, it can be jumpered without the problem of the starter running on lie the permanent magnet 9103 would. I wrote to the manufacturer for advice, and this was the solution.

…more fun… I think the tiger had neither a 156 tooth nor the 164 tooth, but a 160 tooth ring gear on the flywheel. Not that it really matters… Definitely, though, both of my Tiger engines have a 3/4 inch offset to the flywheel, so even though the literature for Powermaster starters suggests the 9104 or 9604 for the 3 or 4 speed manual transmission, these will not work because they are for a 3/8 inch offset, not a 3/4 inch offset (they won’t be able to reach to engage the ring gear). The 9103 or 9603 have the correct offset and will work perfectly well notwithstanding the fact that the literature and the Summit Racing website say it will not work (says it will only work on automatic transmissions and 5 speed manuals). Again, I spoke with the manufacturer and they confirm the literature is only a guideline and is incorrect for some applications.

So my advice is, before buying a starter, please measure your offset to be sure you don’t get the wrong one.

[Joel & Karen Griffin]

As far as the tooth count it makes no differance, its the centerline of the starter that counts.

[tigernewbie]

Yup, true. But if one reads the instructions with these starters, it would seem tooth count has some bearing on which one one should choose for a particular application.. It’s just added, needless confusion. Cheers.

[Robert and Mariet Jaarsma]

I agree that the tooth count makes no difference, its the centerline of the starter that counts. However the uneven toothcount distributes the wear more all over, than with an even tooth count. that’s the reason, they usually prefer an uneven tooth count. Robert

[Tom and Kathy Calvert]

The Tiger manual shift flywheel is smaller in diameter than the manual shift flywheel normally used on other Ford powered cars (nominally an inch). The ring gear is not shrouded by the clutch surface of the flywheel. The larger diameter flywheel clutch surface overhangs the ring gear, mandating less throw (offset) on the starter. The Tiger starter throw is the same as used with the C4 automatic. The Tiger flywheel is about ten pounds lighter than the larger more typical flywheel. Tom

[Joel & Karen Griffin]

????????????????????????????

[David Reina and Donna Koretsky and Donna Koretsky]

I was wondering if Tiger Newbie’s old starter was actually correct. Perhaps it had the wrong offset and was only catching on the forward edge of the teeth and at this point has worn the teeth to the point that its not engaging. If it is the correct starter why not just have it rebuilt? (I have to say, the answers to this question taught me a lot about Tiger flywheels and starters!)
Dave

[Joel & Karen Griffin]

The old starter is a normal type, solonoid mounted on top that engages the bendix and drive gear,it has a firewall mounted solonoid. most of the aftermarket starters Jegs,Summit,Powermaster etc are gear driven, hense gear reduction ,which provides more cranking power they are also lighter in weight and most are adjustable as to positioning the starter. in the case of the Jegs starter it has a shim to move the starter fore and aft to correct any engagement issues
with the drive gear.
My comment as to the tooth count making no differance comes from a starter builder I bought a gear driven starter from years ago, and after replacing ring gears on a Tiger several times know you will never buy an exact replacement, as to the comment as to the Tiger having a different flywheel, I’m not sure that is correct I have used the Jegs starter on a 302 and now a 260 and have never had any issues the only issue is the clutch a Tiger having a long type while
others use a diaphragm type cover but thats another deal which is an easy fix!

[George and Beverly and Beverly Coleman]

What Tom said is right the starter is the one used for the C4 auto and the flywheel is the smaller Ford 260 style the 289 is larger. I have a 260 flywheel with new ring gear if anyone needs a good one the old 260 flywheels are getting hard to find! 8)

[Joel & Karen Griffin]

I went to the local Auto parts store and bought a new ring gear for a 260 so Im thinking stuff is still available !

[George and Beverly and Beverly Coleman]

Be carefull there are two different ring gears! the one you get may or may not mesh with the starter you have, just say’n! 8)
The ring gears come in 152 and 164 teeth and it dose make a differance.

[Joel & Karen Griffin]

We’ll there may be two different ring gears but you’ll be hard pressed to get an origonal, I’ve replaced rings on a 289/260/302 and used the same ring and the same gear driven starter and have never had problems!

[Author]

Posts