- This topic has 21 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated October 17, 2008 at 1:52 am by alpine-64.
July 27, 2008 at 12:06 pm #57224
My car is finally on the road and I love it…with exceptions. I’ve read as many posts as I could find relating to keeping the Tiger on the road and still have questions about what has and has not worked. The ride is hard, stiff, and scary when I hit some uneven section of pavement. The car doesn’t hold the road like I think it should, it tends to skid/skip (hop) through the rough sections. This happens on straight sections and curves. It is unnerving.
The front end was rebuilt, new urethane bushings, new Koni shocks and new front springs. Leaf springs haven’t been upgraded although all the bushings have been replaced including the panhard rod bushings.
I don’t think any of this is related to horsepower, that’s a different issue and I’m sure is fixed by installing positraction.
I’m needing help here so please give me some suggestions.
Thanks, Bruce B38001497
July 27, 2008 at 12:39 pm #62385
Adjust your shocks to a softer setting. Sounds like the are set to full stiffness.
July 28, 2008 at 12:22 pm #62391George and Beverly ColemanParticipant
The Urethane bushings will make it very stiff and the wheel will jump around on rough pavement, you done need to set the shocks to a softer ride too!! You will need to hold on to the wheel!
July 28, 2008 at 2:05 pm #62392Eric and Bonnie and Bonnie GibeautParticipant
What kind of tires and wheels are you using? Is the front end alignment correct? Is the crossmember bolted securely to the chassis? A Tiger I bought with scary handling was due to all 4 bolts loose in the crossmember to chassis mounts and it also had wider wheels with wider offset and tires that didn’t match in front either. White knuckle driving the first and last time I drove it like that! Eric
July 28, 2008 at 10:18 pm #62393
Thank you for the replies. Shocks are currently set at medium. I’ll be adjusting them to a softer setting tomorrow and see what’s what.
Maybe I should change back to rubber bushings although I know there are plenty of Tigers roaming the roads with urethane bushings, Koni shocks and new springs that don’t have this problem so I will change one thing at a time.
I have 205/45/16 Toyos front and back on 16" Panasport wheels. Crossmember is nice and snug but I will double check again.
If I’m unable to solve this ‘problem’ I’ll drive this machine to DC in October and let the experts have their way with it. Bruce
July 29, 2008 at 12:08 am #62394quote 2879MacDougall:I have 205/45/16 Toyos front and back on 16″ Panasport wheels.
Man that is A LOT of tire and wheel weight for the front end. Your front suspension was designed for 5.60-13 on very light 13" steel rims. That may be your problem.
That Toyo tire is ~22 lbs.
The original 5.60-13 (I have one in the garage) tire weight is – 15 lbs.
Now figure out the weight difference between the steel 13" and your Panasport 16"
You have at least 8 lbs more rotating weight per wheel up front.
July 29, 2008 at 12:15 am #62395
Since I went to the 15" wheels my ride has been alot better.
The other Sunbeam that I work on has adj. shocks and before I softened them some the ride was awful.
July 29, 2008 at 1:12 pm #62399
i have the same tire size (205/45 16) on the same wheels but have bf goodrich g-force kdw tires. i also had a lot of issue with front end handling mainly because i couldn’t get the alignment right with a sagging crossmember. i jacked the crossmember out to the correct width and reinforced it and everything became much better. my other suggestions that helped me were:
1) make sure the konis are somewhere between middle and soft. hard is good on a smooth race track only.
2) bushings need to tightened enough to stop lateral movement there.
3) steering column joints nice and tight and good rubber in the mountings.
the ride is of course a little harsh but is now predictable and precise.
August 1, 2008 at 12:13 pm #62416John and Laurie LoganParticipant
With such a low aspect ratio side wall your going to have a lot stiffer tire. Also when you changed springs did you change the spring rate? The tire pressure maybe to high, when my father and I set up our cars we took them out on the highway for 30-40 mins. to get the tires warm. And then checked the tire temps with a pirometer, outside tread, middle, inside. What you want is equal temps across the tire, if the middle temp is higher than the other two the tire has to much air pressure. What you might find is your tire is rated for a lot more load than your putting on it. You tire might say 35 psi max load 1650lbs, you should not be at 35 psi in your tire on a tiger. Over inflated is going to give a smaller contact area, which gives longer braking, less traction and a harsh ride (great gas mileage).
August 1, 2008 at 2:04 pm #62417
On such an old design car, the suspension will not handle such low profile tyres well unless you have exactly the right spring/damping setup. I would think that going much below about 60 profile brings little benefit and adds problems which are difficult to eliminate. Profiles of 60 and 55 have worked well for me.
August 3, 2008 at 4:44 pm #62423
Here’s an update on my handling issues. Softening the shocks to soft all the way around improved the ride considerably, as did lessing the tire pressure to 40psi in the front and 34psi in the rear. I probably would have been happier with 15" wheels and tires with a little taller side wall. Oh well.
When I changed the front springs, I bought them from Doug Jennings and didn’t pay attention to their rating. I believe Doug said they are a little stiffer than original Tiger springs. I have ordered a set of Dale’s leaf springs and will install those when I do the posi, hopefully in a week or so. I’m also planning on changing the steering rack, again going with the kit Dale offers.
Just to be on the safe side I’m ordering the reinforcement kit from Tom Hall and will do that when I do the leaf springs. I’m hoping with these changes I can cruise the highways at whatever speed I want and know the car will stay on the road. In the meantime this car is very driveable right now and I am having a blast with it. Flash back to 1969-72 when I was cruising all around the west in my ’65. More later after the changes. Bruce
August 3, 2008 at 5:36 pm #62424quote Brucemac11:I have ordered a set of Dale’s leaf springs and will install those when I do the posi, hopefully in a week or so.
I have a Dana 44 Power-Lok for sale it you want it. Came out of my Tiger and will fit your car perfect.
It is a 4.10 ring and pinion.
Happy to hear that you and your Tiger are getting along again.
October 2, 2008 at 10:09 pm #62554
The story continues…with a happy ending believe it or not. First I lessened tire pressure all around and set Konis to soft. That made some improvement but not what I was looking for. More $$$ spent on the MG Midget steering change from Dale. Well worth the $$$, at least with the size wheels I have. The car now stays on the road, the front end can be aligned and I don’t have to worry about it drifting all over creation. Positraction and a set of rear springs, from Dale, completed the improvements. I did have to prune the lip on the rear quarters slightly for clearance. The car sits lower with the new springs. What a nice ride, and with the 5 speed from Tom Hall I get close to 21mpg on the highway if I don’t go crazy; 302 Ford crate motor, 340HP.
Phil Peron and I are planning to attend the United in DC – we’re driving this critter.
October 16, 2008 at 12:23 am #62571
When changing to the MG Midget steering rack, how does it improve the steering? Does it improve the ackerman angle issues?
October 16, 2008 at 3:29 am #62575alpine-64Participant
Dales kit uses a midget rack and MGB steering arms to correct the ackerman angle, it also gives the tiger a quicker ratio for steering too.
The kit has the added benifit of making it easier to set the alignement on the tigers, something not always so easy.
October 16, 2008 at 7:29 pm #62580
I think the biggest improvement is the steering rack change. I don’t understand Ackerman angles but with this change the steering is much more responsive, the car doesn’t drift on the road and it feels safe. Another significant improvement was using Dale’s rear leaf springs and removing the panhard rod. With 7" of rubber on the road, these changes, new front springs and new Konis all around this Tiger feels like it’s on rails.
Installing the new leaf springs does drop the rear end some so I did have to prune the inside fender lip a little at a time to eliminate tire scrubbing. I recommend these modifications to anyone. It’s truly a fun car to drive. Don’t forget about the positraction – incredible. Bruce
October 16, 2008 at 8:38 pm #62582
Thanks Michael and Bruce for the replies. The steering is one thing I don’t like with the Tiger. It’s the low speed driving and car park type stuff that the Tiger does not cope with well. I would like to sort it out, but the dollers are the key. Is it a fairly easy conversion or is it a bit tricky? What is the kit worth from Dale’s or is it something that can be sourced closer to home?
Has your Tiger got the Dale’s Kit in it?
October 16, 2008 at 10:54 pm #62584
The steering conversion uses these components:
MG Midget steering rack – under $300
MGB steerings arms – I bought mine on eBay for $15
2 sets Alpine tie rods from Sunbeam Specialties. The conversion requires only the left side be used.
Dale sells the adapter kit, which he makes, for $275.
Swapping the racks isn’t difficult, the cross member doesn’t have to come out of the car. I had some problems positioning everything back and getting the steering knuckle onto the rack. It all does work without any extra modifications, it just takes some grunting. It also helps to have a friend with you for the extra hands. Bruce
October 16, 2008 at 11:28 pm #62585
Do the MGB steering arms require modification and what year arms can you use? I assume that the Midget racks also come in left and right hand (as per the Tiger’s) or are they interchangeable? Am I reading it correctly in that you require two Alpine left hand tie rods? Did you have the engine out when you did your modification? How long did the conversion take you?
October 17, 2008 at 12:11 am #62587
Any MGB steering arms can be used as is, as long as they’re in good shape.
The rack needs to be from 1959 – 1970. I don’t know about left and right versions since my steering wheel is on the left.
The engine does not have to be out of the car, nor does the cross member. I loosened the four cross member bolts, removed the front two and tilted the cross member so that I could undo the steering rack. I was using a lift for this and supporting the cradle with a transmission jack and another pair of hands. The rack come out and the adapters go onto the cross member brackets and the new steering slides into place. Once I got to this point I thought I was going to be home quickly…not quite. There is some fussing involved, some twitching and tweaking but nothing really serious, just aggravating. The steering knuckle appeared to be 1/2" short of fitting onto the rack. You have to loosen the expansion tank and the steering nut so that you can push the steering rod to the front. This does make up that short difference but then you have to adjust the outside metal tube (steering column is inside) so that the clamshell doesn’t bottom out on the dash. It all goes back together just fine.
It took me about two hours, maybe three, to make the change. Aligning the front is much easier and so much more accurate. A good tape measure alignment and the car goes in a dead straight line. Bruce
October 17, 2008 at 12:57 am #62588
Is the MG Midget steering rack, basically identical to the Tiger’s other than the ratio? Could the standard Tiger rack be used in conjunction with the MGB steering arms?
Thanks again, Robin.
October 17, 2008 at 1:52 am #62589alpine-64Participant
You need an early series midget rack, dales kit has a set of brackets that mount the rack diffrently to the tigers, the MGB arms then connect up at a much better (straighter) angle. he has adjustable set of rods that then connect to the LH alpine tie rods.
Wally used Dales kit to convert his car to RHD. They still have a poor tunging circle.. but the handling is much improved and quicker. Also removes tyre scrub at full lock and i guess in theory loads the front end less.
I dont have the steernig kit on my car.. though may do in the future.. though i do have dales springs front and rear, brakes front and rear and bushes.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.