February 6, 2006 at 6:07 pm #56641
I have struggled a bit with fuel delivery problems. It started with a “new” Holley 600 on Ebay that turned out to be a real piece of *&%#. I broke down and bought a new Holley 600 from a retail vendor. It was much better but then the fuel pump went wacko. I bought a Mr Gasket pump labeled “For all 4, 6 and 8 cylinder carbureted engines”. The problem now is that it floods badly when starting a hot engine. Carburetors are on a long list of the things I don’t do well so I am really reluctant to mess with the float bowl levels. On a new carb, they should be pretty darn close. This is on a 302 with Crane Blazer cam, headers and F4B. My suspect is the fuel pump. It runs continuously, even when sitting with the ignition on but the engine not running. When I have been cruising along and slow down to make a turn, it sometimes but not always wants to die on me. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. If I have to trash the new fuel pump and go to a proven product, I will just add it to the list of parts that have been tried and discarded. Right now, the engine is hell when it’s well but it’s sick a lot.
February 6, 2006 at 10:05 pm #60329
I had a Holley 600 CFM a number of years ago and I could not get it to work properly. It either starved out or flooded, no matter what I did to the float level. I had the same situation as you (fuel pump constantly running) with this carb.
I finally switched to an Edelbrock (old Carter design), but went to a 500 CFM for my 260 motor.
I’m no carb expert either, but after I switched, set the idle screws and tweaked the timing I drove a 400 mile round trip to a car show in Maryland. I have not touched the carb since.
I’ve heard good stories and nightmarish ones about Holleys in this size range, don’t know why that is.
February 10, 2006 at 2:16 pm #60333
Your problem is probably due to variations in fuel pressure from your pump and the inability of the float valve to control it. I would recommend you put a pressure regulator and gage in the fuel line as close to the carburetor as possible and adjust the pressure to 4.5 to 5.5 PSI with the engine running. I’m sure your problem will go away.
February 10, 2006 at 3:05 pm #60334
You are probably right though I have had problems in the past with crud getting in the fuel lines. When I had the car apart, I sealed the gas tanks and replaced all of the rubber lines and am running two fuel filters. My weekend project will be to install a pressure regulator, clean the filters and take a look at the float bowls.
February 14, 2006 at 5:06 pm #60345
I’ve had a Series II Tiger for 10years[and a Series 5 Alpine since 1966].The Tiger has a Holley 600 CFM.In the past couple of years I’ve had intermittent fuel delivery issues with the Tiger[never any with the Alpines dual Stombergs/mechanical fuel pump].I’ve been running NAPA supplied fuel pumps[appx $45] and a see thru filter both before and after the fuel pump.I always keep a new NAPA pump[ properly wired]on board as a ready replacement.This past summer I brought back the NAPA pump that was,I guessed, acting up[although you always do the litany…is it the carb,coil etc.].The new free NAPA Carter pump has been running fine…I’ve been running it every weekend but begged off this past weekend due to the Blizzard of ’06.I don’t know what the moral of all this is.I cut open two of the NAPA pumps…saw nothing wrong… blew air thru the carb…and thru the fuel lines which I had replaced,closely monitored the fuel filters,use STP fuel cleaner and alls been well…but I drove the old reliable Alpine the 450 miles to United 25.However United 26 , God willing,will be the year of the Tiger with replacement fuel pumps in tow. frank mooney
February 14, 2006 at 5:19 pm #60346
I installed the pressure regulator this weekend but it was Winter here in North Florida, highs in the 50s, So the test drive will have to wait until Tomorrow when it will be back in the mid 60s (Still no usable roof).
February 14, 2006 at 5:23 pm #60347Eric and Bonnie GibeautParticipant
You just gotta love these Southern winters! This has been the easiest one in a long time. It will hit the 70’s later this week. Great Sunbeam weather. Get that Tiger out and running good! Eric
February 16, 2006 at 5:36 pm #60354
Swing and a miss. It’s 75 today. After about 15 minutes of running it is back to the same flooding problem but that is part of the beauty of working on these cars. When I finally figure it out, my chest will puff out and my hat size will increase. I strutted around for two days after I figured out what I had done wrong on the brake lights.
February 19, 2006 at 3:12 pm #60358
I’m sure you did all the following but I will list all the things I can think of anyway.
* Install a pressure regulator and gauge.
* Set the pressure to 4.5 to 5.5 psi with the engine running.
* Readjust the float levels with the gasoline just at the bottom of the screw holes.
* Check the two 5/16 inch vent tubes cut at a 45 degree angle that stick out of the top of the carburator. Make sure the air cleaner top doesn’t come in contact with them and block them off.
* If you are still having problems, pull the float bowels to make sure there isn’t dirt passing through the float valves.
* Replace the float bowel valves of you haven’t already.
* While you have the primary bowel off, pull the primary valve body off. There should be no gasoline behind the power valve. It is common for power valves to leak and cause flooding, especially if you have recently had a backfire. It’s easy to have a backfire prior to getting the distributor adjusted.
* You can check the valve by sucking on the end, plugging the hole with your tongue to see if it will hold a vacuum. Or, replace the power valve with a 6.5 psi valve just to be sure.
* Replace the float bowel and valve body gaskets with the reusable blue foam gaskets. It is IMPORTANT that you use the proper gaskets with ALL the holes in the proper places. Using the wrong gaskets is a common mistake because there are so many variations and the differences are not evident. If you use the wrong gaskets, you will either cover up a hole and have poor power, have a problem re-assembling the carburetor or have a leak some where. I have done all of these.
February 19, 2006 at 7:20 pm #60361
Your reply to Bud looks like a good tech tip. What do you think?
February 20, 2006 at 5:16 pm #60363
I haven’t had the carb off the car, yet but will probably get back to it this week. We had company for the weekend and went to the Daytona 500. Excellent suggestions and a couple that I hadn’t considered. I did spend a little time on it last week and found some crud in the fuel filters. This is the same type of crud I had years ago when I was running gasahol. It actually looks like peeled off black paint. I sealed the gas tanks when I had them out of the car but apparently either I didn’t get them totally covered or it is picking this stuff up from the metal connecting tubes that I didn’t seal. My crystal ball tells me I am going to find more of this crud when I get around to checking the float bowls.
February 21, 2006 at 3:06 pm #60367
I found some time to mess with the car yesterday and am still a bit mystified. After running the engine for a while, I noticed that the secondaries were going drip drip drip when at idle and kept it up even after shutoff for a while.
I have the pressure regulator set at 4psi.
This carb is an 1850-9. The vent tubes are actually part of the carb casting. There are no float bowl sight windows or external float adjustment screws on this carb. I am running a Holley air cleaner and there is no interference with the vent tubes.
I pulled the float bowls and all looks good. They are adjusted properly, there is no leakage at the valve body, the power valve is good, the engine has never backfired since this carb was installed, and all was clean.
This was actually a disappointment because I was hoping to see some crud that I could wave my magic want at to cure the problems.
This carb came with the blue foam gaskets.
I disconnected the fuel line between the carb and fuel pump, filled it full of carb cleaner and blew it out with compressed air and then repeated the process a few times. All of the rubber lines have been replaced but the original metal lines were re-used. It was amazing how nasty the gas looked the first time I blew it out but no chunky stuff came out and there were no signs of the black peeled paint looking crud that I have seen in the filters. While I was at it, I ran some carb cleaner thru the fuel pump.
After reassembly, the secondaries were no longer dripping but the engine is still a bear to get started when hot and still wants to stall when coming to a stop or executing a slow corner. Sounds like a good excuse for an extended test drive. I’m sure Haggerty will understand.
February 23, 2006 at 2:08 pm #60374
It’s too bad that your carburetor doesn’t have the sight holes in the side of the float bowels.
I’m sort of at the end of my suggestions except for one thing. You mention using gasohol. That stuff is very hard on old carburetor parts, especially the old rubber type material on the end of some float valves and “O” ring seals on float valves and other places.
I nearly ran out of gas in Canada coming back from the 2005 United, before we found a station with real gasoline. I’m not sure how well the replacement parts react to gasohol.
February 23, 2006 at 2:23 pm #60375
The gasahol problems were many years and five carbs ago. When Keith Porter first put this engine on the road, he had a variety of carb problems. Started with a new 600 that he had rebuilt after just a few miles and never could get it right. Then, I think, he went to a 650 and never got that right. Then, he ended up with a 750 double pumper and it ran like a scalded dog. Way too much carb but the car ran great so he lived with it and when I bought the car the first time, I lived with it too. Since I have detuned it a bit (302 heads instead of the 289 heads and got rid of the Rhodes lifters), I decided I would go back to a 600. Full throttle is a blast but it’s a pain wondering what it is going to do when I stop. This is the second new carb I have had on it since I got it running. The first was an Ebay piece of %&*#. This is on an F4B. Does anyone have a part number for a heat shield plate to go under the carb? It could be that it is just getting too darn hot. Maybe I should consider insulation for the fuel line? Pain in the butt but it is still way more cool than the young guys with the rice rockets worrying about what chip to put in their cars. Who ever heard of getting grease under your nails working on a chip.
February 24, 2006 at 1:24 pm #60378
I had carb problems with the 351W in the lister.Originally I had put a new holley on.Rebuilt the holley twice.Tried a different shop the second time.Ran good at speed but always problems.Went to a new Edelbrock performance carb.Replaced plugs and wires.Checked everything.Started engine, made small adjustments as to idle and mixture.That was 2 years ago and I have never touched the engine or adjusted the carb since.
8) And its sunny again
February 24, 2006 at 1:45 pm #60379
I started to go to a different manufacturer and let the guy at the parts store talk me out of it. Considering the money I already have invested in two new Holleys, I could have had one heck of a nice Edelbrock. I would say “live and learn” but obviously I haven’t. At least now I can call it having a senior moment instead of being just plain stupid.
February 24, 2006 at 2:33 pm #60380quote pdq67:
If you are over 55 there is no stupiid ideas.They are all senior moments
Redoing the 62 and changing from the V6 to the 302 I never considered anything but Edelbrock for a carb.The 302 ran on the stand before I put it in so I only need to turn on the fuel pump.connect the coil lead and it should start.I was going to have this done by last fall but so much fun and so many projects have delayed a complete redo.
February 24, 2006 at 2:43 pm #60381
59 and counting. It is kind of fun to see the looks on the young folks faces when they see and hear the Tiger and see an old fart driving. I have a friend who runs a GT2 car and he tells me my car would not pass the sound limits at some of the tracks he races at. It is relatively quiet at a steady speed but gets a bit loud at full throttle.
With age comes patience. There was a time when I would have had Holley shaped dents in the garage walls. Now, I just cover the car and come back with a better attitude the next day.
February 24, 2006 at 4:13 pm #60383
Well I beat you on the age bit.It is 68 this July.
True about old guys having a car that can go.
Enjoy and may it be sunny
February 24, 2006 at 4:28 pm #60384
As a follow up to my earlier post and after reviewing the wisdom of other posts I decided to go with a pressure regulator.I have it on order from Victoria but while it is adjustable I dont know if it has a built in or seperate gauge[or no gouge at all].I should have made an inquiry. frank mooney
April 3, 2006 at 4:07 pm #60487
The Victoria British pressure regulator is a small nice looking crome unit with 5 settings.The settings do not show the pressure being supplied but are numbered 1-5.#3,my selection, is for V-8’s with 4 barrels my Holley 600 cfm.With shipping $40.20.Unfortunately a few days after installation the fuel flow ceased or at best dribbled out.Scratch the head time,decided finallyto remove the pressure regulator/LIFO.Straight flow through the fuel filters[one pre pump one after]success!Car runs very nicely.However I have a bit of gasoline weepage[having removed the carb for inspection] at the point where the fuel line enters the Holly.a right angle fitting requiring two thin copper washers.I have a box assortment of various copper washers…none fit.Off to Advance Auto[which sell Holleys,no washers that fit…likewise NAPA].Hardware store closed at noon on Sunday…so I’m going on line hopefully with Holley and find out what gives with their elusive washers. I’m returning the pressure regulator.Victoria supplies a nice form so we’ll see how this turns out.Holleys web site advises that the 390 cfm is the better choice for the small block 289 but the 600 is the hot rodders favorite. frank mooney
April 3, 2006 at 6:28 pm #60488
The Victoria British regulator sounds identical to the one sold by
Advance. The car has actually been running pretty well lately. I think most of the problems were the result of the infamous black flakes. I took it to a car show last week. I opened the hood and was digging around in the trunk for cleaning stuff when a guy came up and asked if I knew that I had a fuel leak. Turns out that the cheap rubber line that came with the regulator had cracked.
May 2, 2006 at 3:31 pm #60518
The Holley 600 cfm on my TIGER II is at least 12 years old and recently was weeping gasoline from a front gaskets onto the manifold close to the distributor…somewhat unnerving.I took it off tightened everything but no success.I looked over my Holley books but suggested causes were more than one- float levels,power valves,worn needles etc. so I picked up a new #4160 Holley 600 cfm with electric choke for $269.00 plus tax.The enclosed instructions said it was factory adjusted,no need to adjust the idle mixture screws so on it went and being that it replaced the same model that was a breeze.I did have to adjust the idle speed screw[but not the mixture screw] to prevent stall out at idle..So far starts and runs well but I didnt open it up…twas cold out on Long Island this weekend and I limited my top down runs to 50-60 mph.I thought this being 2006 the price for a complex item such as this #4160 was reasonable especially if I can get 12 plus years out of it.I’m not all that sure which is the best connection for the positive wire on the electric choke but I’ll figure it out. frank mooney
May 2, 2006 at 5:24 pm #60519
You can run a wire from the ballast resistor.Just be sure it is not the side that runs to the coil.This then gives full voltage and is most likely the simplest way to wire the choke.
May 3, 2006 at 5:24 pm #60520
Chuck,I thank you.I’ll try it out this weekend. frank mooney
May 8, 2006 at 1:34 pm #60524
Chuck,thanks again.Did as you advised with regard to the ballast resistor. Starts right up every time and ran nicely on an all too short test drive this weekend. frank mooney
May 16, 2006 at 1:32 am #60540
My car just died on the highway a few weeks ago, kind of unnerving and it had the symptoms that I’d associate with fuel starvation. When I removed the air cleaner I saw that one of the two barrels was getting a little bit of fuel, so my immediate guess is there’s a clog in the line, probably due to the paint. Fortunately, I just filled the tank prior to this 🙄 so I’ll have to drain the fuel system. My intent is to remove the fuel filter in the front and examine it for paint, followed by installing clear filters, one in place of the current filter and another prior to the fuel pump. I’m worried that the carb is plugged up, but I’m in the middle of moving so no hope working on the car for the next 2 months probably.
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