August 13, 2008 at 6:48 pm #57239
I have a new alloy rad I am attempting to fit to help cure overheating issues with my Mark 1A. It measures the same as my original rad in all dimensions except for the thickness, which is 2 3/4 inches. In attempting to fit it, it interferes with the original steering rack. There is just not enough room for the rad to slide past the rack.
It looks to me like the solution is to either mill off the rack mounts where it attaches to the cross member, or to mill off enough from the two rack covers to gain room.
I read in another thread where a thick NASCAR type rad was made to fit by removing the the lower part of the rad surround, but like many others, I am reluctant to do this.
Anyone who has done this found an easy solution??
August 13, 2008 at 11:40 pm #62442
What type of radiator did you get? Is it designed for the Tiger? Ther are a few vendors that sell ally arciators that will fit without modification. Also, what eninge are you running.. was the cooling issue due to an old blocked radiator or something else?
August 14, 2008 at 12:23 am #62443
Its a bored and stroked 289, measures 331. I have been struggling with the overheating for three seasons and have been applying the tried and true Tiger cooling fixes one by one. Blocked the horn holes, added a rad spoiler, put a spring into the lower rad hose, as well as refitted the by-pass hose, etc. What I haven’t done was have the rad cleaned and rodded, or replaced the 13" Flex-O-Lite fan.
In a final fit I bought this rad from a guy California, so I don’t know the manufacturer, but it is a handsomel piece. Its very well made, beautiful welds and fittings, pre-drilled brackets and the over-all dimensions are exactly the same as my stock rad except for the thickness. I also ordered from Summit a new Miloden stock replacement water pump, a 14" mechanical fan, a 11" electric pusher fan and a temp-sensor switch and harness.
I was disappointed to find the lack of clearance between the steering rack and the rad bulkhead-mount.
Since I started this post, I have been looking at the related parts, and am considering applying some ignorance to the lower part of that bulkhead. I might just be able to move it the 1" I need to gain enough clearance.
I have also checked the measurement from the waterpump mount to the rad if I can get it installed. Using my stock water pump I will have about 1/2" clearance. Scary. I hope the Miloden is no thicker.
August 14, 2008 at 2:57 am #62444
assuming your HG’s are on the right way..
When does the car overheat? Does it do it in traffic or when you drive?
If just in traffic its more an issue of not enough airflow through the radiator. If on the run.. chances are a cooling system issue. If you had not rebuilt the radiator i think that will have been the issue, and to be honest you should have done it and cleaned out the heater core as a matter of course with the engine rebuild.
By chance was the radiator from the vendor on ebay last week? Instead of beating metal or cutting it.. maybelook at a ally rad from Dale A’s (fluidyne) they fit and work very well.
August 14, 2008 at 1:36 pm #62445
All good advice for sure, and thanks for that.
The car overheats on the road, at a steady 70 mph the temp reaches 220 and stays there. In the city after a highway run, the temp will slowly climb to 230 or so. I have a 16# rad cap which prevents it from boiling over.
I agree the rad and heater core should have been cleaned when the engine was being rebuilt, and I was told it was. (I didn’t re-build it). The heater core throws a lot of heat (why not at those temps!), and I have an infra-red thermometer that I have checked the dash gauge with. I took the gauge apart and set it at 200F with my IR thermometer, taking the temp reading from the base of the temp sending unit in the manifold. I also have taken readings with my IR at points all over the rad, and they were consistent with water flowing through all corners.
So I had no reason to suspect a plugged or dirty rad or heater core.
The new alloy rad was custom built for the Tiger, and no doubt was made by one of the well known suppliers that you mentioned. I just don’t know which one. It wasn’t on eBay, but on the CAT list.
It is, as I have said, beautifully made, and now that I have moved the rad panel, it bolts right in! I suspect there was some mis-alignment from work done in the past. I’m sure the body job I did was at least the third or 4th. There were signs all over the car that is was used in some kind of competitive endeavor in the distant past, so it very well may have had a front-end shunt and they got it back more or less to where it should have been.
I am not unhappy to have this alloy rad in there, for the extra cooling it will afford, and it looks pretty"cool" too. (sorry!)
So thanks again for your help Mike. I think my application of a small jack in appropriate places when no one was looking did the job, and I didn’t have to cut out that controversial cross brace to do it.
August 14, 2008 at 2:04 pm #62446
I recommend you have your OEM radiator recorded (clean and rodded will not cut it, old core is not efficient even when clean) with the recommended three core which can be found in the cooling the Tiger article. Fan is another big item that you need to change. Again, go with the 15" recommended in the article.
This way you will not have to cut your Tiger for a non OEM part.
I have done everything you have + the core and fan and my car NEVER goes above 180 in any condition. I have a mildly tuned 260 bored .030 over.
Before I did all of this work, my cooling temp would rise to 240 while at freeway speed. I found that my radiator was 50% clogged. It would cool OK at lower speeds and idle.
August 15, 2008 at 12:22 am #62447
I saw that radiator.. looked nice (its not a dales one from the pics) Chances are the radiator was shot, so replacing will fix it.. the alloy ones are not that much better at idle speeds, but are much better on the run. I have a 340hp crate motor and a dales ally rad and with a 10′ thermo on the front i can say i probably dont even need an engine fan.. (BTW.. anyone looking for a perfect condition LAT fan.. i have one i have not used)
I think oftent he overheating issues with tigers are blamed on things that are not in correct operating condition.. alloy radiatora are not always required.. but they do look nice and are a bit lighter 🙂
August 16, 2008 at 11:03 am #62457
I took your advice and checked on the price to re-core my original rad…$357.00. Meanwhile, I have this nice alloy rad that I bought and won’t be able to send back, that I would really like to see in my engine room.
I also bought a Miloden "stock" replacement water pump, ( not the high performance one) to replace the original pump that has the less desirable impeller, according to the Tiger Tom/Chuck King article. Trouble is, it is longer than the stock pump, and will not fit with the alloy rad.
I can return the Miloden, fit the original pump, and run the car while I wait to find one of those better original pumps.
Lots of room to continue to play here, if I don’t bankrupt myself in the process!
Thanks for the advice!
Keep on Tigerin’
August 16, 2008 at 11:21 am #62458
I think you are correct. 43 year old parts have a way of losing their edge!
My water pump is in good condition but not as efficient as the later type. The original rad, according to my rad shop, is in great shape and not plugged, but as we now know, is not up to the performance of newer designs. My car also came with a 13" Flex-O-Lite Flex fan, ( hold the rocks – I didn’t put it on there!) which I am replacing with a 14" rigid fan, and a recommended 11" thermo pusher.
For all I know the head gaskets were installed upside down or front to back by the engine builder, but before I go to the trouble and expense of hauling the engine out of the hole to check, I’m going to do everything else that’s easier and hope the HG’s are in correctly.
BTW, my engine is a 1967 "thick-wall" block, bored to 80 thou and stroked to the max, and measures 331 cu.in. It has all new internals built to produce approx 330 hp at the crank. It works fine in all respects except for the cooling. If I can get it under control, it will be a fine cat indeed.
Thanks for yor input Mike.
August 16, 2008 at 7:33 pm #62459
just a comment on the flex fan;
i have the 13" flex lite fan which i use in the summer. i does a great job of keeping the cool in traffic without the electric having to kick in. it flattens right out as soon as the engine revs above about 2.5k. in the winter i don’t bother with an engine fan at all and never have issues.
August 16, 2008 at 9:12 pm #62460
I have a 13 inch flex fan (5-blade), but have only marginal cooling efficiency. On hot days/long fast runs I need to use the electric fan as well. The flex fan looks a little small, so I wondered if a 14 inch flex fan would be better?
August 16, 2008 at 9:29 pm #62461
I will be able to tell you soon….I bought a 14" Flex-O-Lite rigid (more or less) plastic fan recommended by many on the Tiger list and some of my local hot rod buddies. I will report back as soon as I have some miles on my new set up.
Thanks for posting!
August 26, 2008 at 12:43 am #62477
dave you did not mention a lower rad shroud if you dont have your tiger back togather take the time to fab a lower shroud it makes a real dif. that along with the mods you have done and the alum rad. it is a lot of trial and error test fits but well worth the time and effort.. on a hot day and being stuck in traffic it will still get hot but will cool off a lot quicker once you get moving.also pop the hood and run with it open to let some of the hot air escape.. good luck earl blu oval
October 19, 2008 at 9:16 pm #62603
I didn’t get the lower shroud built and fitted. I was too anxious to get out on the road and see how it works. Its awesome!
But a lower shroud is definitely in the works. It will likely have great benefit when we are tooling around town in traffic at the peak of summer. Right now rolling down the highway smiling it does not over heat. But it hasn’t been tested on a real hot day in traffic, and I suspect that will be when a 360 shroud will come into its own.
A winter project for sure.
October 20, 2008 at 3:28 pm #62612Mike SchreinerParticipant
Why dont you ry longer bolts that hold the front crossmember on and thicker (or double) allum shim spacers? THis would lower the rack from the body the same amount as the additional spacer…If replacing the bolts with longer, be sure to purchace quality bolts with a high strength rating
October 20, 2008 at 4:11 pm #62614
Now there’s an idea I haven’t heard or seen before – longer cross-member bolts and shims. What a concept. I have thought about raising the engine on its mounts to get a 15" fan to clear the rack, but this would cover both prospects.
Thanks Mike…great idea!
October 20, 2008 at 10:04 pm #62617Mike SchreinerParticipant
Glad I could help….Year’s ago my sister had an ALpine…..some kids on bikes rode in front of her from behind a parked truck. She swerved and missed them, but hit a concrete power pole…..she was only going 25 to 30 mph, but her head broke the windsheild and the car was hurt badly. I ended up with it and replaced the LF fender, hood, front valance and the front suspension….it was again drivable, but because the sub frame was bent the drivers side was over an inch lower than the pass side in the front. I corrected it by adding extra allum shims to just the drivers side…the car sat level and drove fine….It is still around somewhere…sold to Steve Kirk at one point but has changed hands after that…Mike Schreiner
October 20, 2008 at 11:28 pm #62618
That’s a bitter/sweet story – I hope your sister recovered successfully.
I passed your tip along to another Tiger owner who has been paralleling my experience, so we have been commiserating and sharing info. He also thought he might try it to install a 15" fan.
Its amazing the help you can get from other Tiger/Alpine owners. Its also gratifying when you get tips that make a huge difference to the reliability/utility of our cars.
Many thanks again Mike !
October 21, 2008 at 2:41 am #62623Tom and Joanne EhrhartParticipant
At the first sign of overheating, dump the Flex-o-lite. Get a 15" Derale 17015. DO NOT CUT FAN. Check out air flow rates of the flexolite compared to the Derale. See https://www.teae.org/cars/cooling/images_lg/10.jpg
October 22, 2008 at 6:05 am #62628
Is the stock Tiger fan 14" or 15"? I have noticed that people having been talking about both. Are any of the six blade Mustang (early Mustang) engine fans any good for the Tigers?
October 22, 2008 at 12:05 pm #62629
Sorry, but I have no idea. My Tiger came to me with a 13" SS five-blade Flex-O-Lite. These have a checkered past with regards to safety, so I was happy to ditch it.
Perhaps another Owner will have the answer.
November 11, 2008 at 8:45 pm #6268666tigermk1aParticipantquote :
My car has no support across the bottom of the radiator…and makes me wonder how much weaker that makes the car as there is little to hold the frame rails together other than the crossmember!! Doe anyone have a decent pic of that area they could send me?? I’m curious as to what I may be able to put back in there…
My rad looks similar to a stock one, but is a bit thicker ( 3/8′) …running a 5 blade flex fan with a built 5.0 liter and no overheat issues… also an oil cooler behind the valance… filter in left wheelwell…
November 12, 2008 at 12:41 am #62688Tom and Joanne EhrhartParticipant
Unfortunately, the lower cross brace does little to help roll stiffness of the Tiger. The x-member is the tie that ties. Unless you are into serious racing, I wouldn’t worry about its absence. Removing the brace does have a few degree improvement at road speed.
Forget all the trick radiators. The Tiger needs air…lots of it. Focus on getting air. Virtually any modern rad will function well. Even the original rad type gives good performance.
Fans. The best we tested is Derale #17015 or an Imperial. They are cheap too. How’bout 623 CFM with a stock or Flexlite fan VS 1195 CFM with a Derale. Almost double. Numbers do not lie. Beware of the Flexlite #1314 or is it 1413. Whatever, The blades fatigue crack. The Mustang Fan is OK if the original 15" dia is maintained. But they have become collector items for some stupid reason when there is actually a cheaper better alternative. It is imperative to maintain a 15" dia fan with a shroud. Move engine but do not cut fan.
Read about the cooling studies Chuck King and I did at https://www.teae.org/cars/cooling/cooling_article.html
This is the only scientific study ever done on cooling a Tiger. We have the cooling enhancements in our Tigers as do a lot of others. In my car, I DO NOT use any electric fans, have air conditioning, use it for towing other cars and it can idle in 104F heat with the AC on and blow cool air.
Be Kool 8)
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