- This topic has 14 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated November 17, 2007 at 4:45 pm by
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I am fairly new to Tigers, and American engines, and I am trying to collect parts for conversion of my Mk1 to a SBF 302 engine. I dont intend to race the car, just for road use and maybe occasional track days.
I havent decided on the exact engine spec, but I want to keep plenty of low down torque. I intend to fit tubular headers and a Holley 500 or 600, but not a hot cam. We can get the new Ford 302 engines here, some with Alu heads, some with iron ones, or I might just see what used engine comes up on eBay!
I want to try to collect all the conversion parts before starting as it can take a long time to get the parts over here!
I have decided to keep the toploader transmission, and I think I have just been lucky to find a suitable 6-bolt bell housing (p/n C5DA-6394-A). Can anyone confirm that this will fit the Tiger toploader – I have a faint memory that the front ring size might be different and needs an adaptor or something?
I know that the Tiger uses a front sump oil pan, and I also have to get the correct water pump, both of which I understand I could transfer from my 260 engine if necessary.
Am I right in thinking that the Tiger clutch is a 10 1/2 inch type? Should I use the same size clutch for the 302? I can get USA imported Sachs clutch kits for a good price, but can anyone recommend these?
I know that the flywheels changed to 50 oz for 1981 on, so I will make sure to get the right one for the engine. But what size/type flywheel do I need to fit the bell housing and stater motor?
Is there anything else I need to know before trying the conversion?
Thats probably too many questions at once, but any help at all would be much appreciated guys.
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If you go from a 5 bolt to a six bolt bellhousing you will have to change the transmission bolt pattern on the bellhousing to match the narrow pattern bolt pattern on the older transmission. The front bearing retainer for the top loader has to be replaced with the larger bearing retainer used on the later trans to fit the hole on the 6 bolt bell housing. Also, you need to get the clutch slave bracket for the six bolt bellhousing. The 5 bolt bracket used for the 5 bolt will not work. You should be able to swap the front timing cover from engine to engine. You need the old one for the dip stick location. I don’t think you need anything else.
Although cooling may be a issue if you use the original radiator. You may have to upgrade to a larger radiator.
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[ Although cooling may be a issue if you use the original radiator. You may have to upgrade to a larger radiator.[/quote]
I would definitly go to the aluminum rad such as the one Doug Jennings sells.On the Lister with the 351W it was the best change in regarding cooling.
I did not hesitate on this addition when I went to the 302 with the Ford Racing goodies.It does keep its cool -
quote dude234:If you go from a 5 bolt to a six bolt bellhousing you will have to change the transmission bolt pattern on the bellhousing to match the narrow pattern bolt pattern on the older transmission. The front bearing retainer for the top loader has to be replaced with the larger bearing retainer used on the later trans to fit the hole on the 6 bolt bell housing. Also, you need to get the clutch slave bracket for the six bolt bellhousing. The 5 bolt bracket used for the 5 bolt will not work. You should be able to swap the front timing cover from engine to engine. You need the old one for the dip stick location. I don’t think you need anything else.
Although cooling may be a issue if you use the original radiator. You may have to upgrade to a larger radiator.
Thanks for the tips dude234.
So changing the bolt pattern is just a matter of drilling new holes?Re the bearing retainer, where can I get the larger retainer and is it easy to change? Alternatively, can I get a ring machined to fit into the bell housing?
It sounds like the slave bracket should not be a problem, maybe I could make something suitable in my workshop?
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I just did this switch from 5 bolt to 6 bolt. I did use late model bell housing and had it drilled to match the narrow bolt pattern. I had them weld in the inside alumim boss’s to have enough threads to hold the trans. The front bearing retainer I bought from Dave Keton 4 speed on the web or it could be Dave keton toploaders. No probelm comes with new gaskets and seal bolts right on. I belive I had to change the size of the bell housing bolts on the 6 bolt are larger . I bougth them from National Parts Depot as a kit perfect.
Dave
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V8 Tiger wrote:
The front bearing retainer I bought from Dave Keton 4 speed on the web or it could be Dave keton toploaders.
It’s David Kee toploaders out of San Antonio, TX. He rebuilds all toploaders and has all the parts needed to do it yourself.
I think his website is davidkeetoploaders.com
Fred Baum
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Looking through my email addresses I found this one for David Kee. This an address, not a website.
Fred Baum
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I got my bell housing now. As V8 Tiger says, there is not much thickness of material to cut a thread. I wondered if there is room for putting captive steel nuts behind the new holes, mounted on a retaining plate? That I could do myself without specialist Alu welding.
One other thing no one mentioned, the damper on the 260 is a three bolt fitting to the pulley. If the new engine is a 4-bolt damper (post 1971?), can I just re-drill my Tiger pulley to fit the 4-hole damper?
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I installed the M-6007-XE3M Crate engine in 2004. Here quickly, are some of the things I did. I know there is much more so If you want additional information let me know.
• I tried to use the early Aluminum "TIGER" valve covers from
the 260 engine but I had to modify the ends of the covers,
redesign the baffles (not remove) and use two gaskets for
stock rocker arm clearance.
• Early 302 front cover with the front dip stick
• The front sump pan that came with the engine with the dipstick
hole plugged. Don’t forget that! The engine I got had the
Explorer serpentine drive, front cover and pump. They sell
them with “V” drives now.
• Windage tray
• Stock oil pump
• Headers with 2 ½” exhaust.
• A 50 oz balancer with the nose machined back to use the stock
front accessory drive locations.
• Four bolt pulley. I think there are now three bolt 50 oz
balancers available.
• Stock engine mounts (USA MADE, NOT TIWAN JUNK that
relocates the engine!).
• New transmission cross member with slightly modified early
Mustang or Tiger rubber mount.
• A T-5 with the 3.35 low and .68 OD and the 2.88 rear. It starts
from a stop very smoothly and goes 72 MPH at 2000 RPM.
• Steel front T-5 bearing retainer
• Short, reversed shift lever
• Later Mustang six bolt housing and Mustang diaphragm clutch.
• Edelbrock Performer Manifold
• Holley 600 four barrel carburetor with a Holley fuel pressure
control
• Edelbrock High flow aluminum water pump with the fan flange
moved back 7/16”. That’s all it takes to make a “Tiger” water
pump.
• A re-curved 1966 vacuum advance distributor with the
recommended steel gear and the Pertronix I solid state
Ignition.
• A Griffin aluminum radiator
• Stock Tiger drive shaft. -
quote John Logan:I installed the M-6007-XE3M Crate engine in 2004. Here quickly, are some of the things I did. I know there is much more so If you want additional information let me know.
• Stock engine mounts (USA MADE, NOT TIWAN JUNK that
relocates the engine!).
•.Do these move the motors forward /back/up/down? What are the ones the Sunbeam suppliers sell?
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Thanks John. Just a couple additional Qs:
quote John Logan:• Windage tray What is that exactly?• A 50 oz balancer with the nose machined back to use the stock
front accessory drive locations. I would think that machining will change weight, hence balance.• Edelbrock High flow aluminum water pump with the fan flange
moved back 7/16”. That’s all it takes to make a “Tiger” water
pump. How do you move it back? -
Michel,
I first bought some mounts that were from Tiawan. They tried to make the left and right from the same stamping. The holes were off so that when I bolted them to the engine they tried to twist the engine forward on one side and rearward on the other. Also, there was about 30% less rubber in the mount, that will transmit more engine vibration into the body. The USA mounts I finally found were from MOOG I think, and were made just like the originals even down to the markings molded into the rubber. I don’t know what the Sunbeam suppliers provide but I would ask where they come from.Chris,
A windage tray is a sheet metal tray that bolts between the crank throws and the pan oil to keep the rods and throws from whipping up the oil at high RPM’s. They bolt on with special main bearing cap bolts and are available from most Performance shops here in the US.Machining the nose of the damper does not effect the counterweights.
You can move the fan flange on the waterpump rearward by putting it in a press and pressing between a spacer on the flange and the other end of the shaft (NOT ON THE IMPELLER). The spacer should be 7/16"’ longer than the end of the shaft sticking out of the flange and an ID of the shaft. It"s hard to move the flange back out so don’t press it too far. Also, measure your old pump first for the dimension. There is a lot of information out there on the dimention. 7/16" is what I came up with. After you press it back, you can cut at least 7/16" off the shaft for more radiator clearance.
Let me know if you have any more Questions?
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One other thing on the water pump. On a new pump, the fan should pilot on the shaft diameter. The original Tiger fan piloted on a larger pilot machined in the flange. If the fan you are going to use has a larger hole than the pump shaft you will need to machine a thin spacer that presses on the shaft to act as a pilot.
John Logan -
On my conversion I used a Professional Products #80007 damper:
http://www.professional-products.com/da … SBford.php
It’s the same length as the 5 bolt 260/289 damper, has 50 oz imbalance, it’s drilled for both 3 and 4 bolt pulleys, and has etched and painted-in timing marks to suit pretty much any of the different front cover timing mark locations. I haven’t run it yet but it’s definitely one of the most ideal parts for the job. If you’re looking at racing then they also have SFI approved versions of the same damper.
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